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Interview with Bernard Zimmerman Page 5
v5: If Gehry stepped away from this project, would you continue to assist in the fund raising for it?
BZ: Would I? If they kept the purity of the design, that's fine. But I don't want Gehry to step away from it and I don't think Gehry will. How do you like that? I think that if they do a good job, Gehry will not step away. You know, architects have been removed, not so much removed negatively, but someone else takes care of building it, as long as he does the specifications.
v5: You're right. But what they are arguing over is the final cut. Gehry wants design control over the project.
BZ: And I agree with him. But I think there is a way to work it out with Broad. I have no qualms about a client saying, "Listen, that organ costs too much, is there a way to do it for less?" I have no qualms about it. So I have to find out if he is trying to force Gehry in having some personality differences or is it a real thing. I think the guy who brings in the money should have something to say about it. He has the responsibility to the people who have given him the money. Let's face it, they already spent 24 million dollars on architectural fees, 24 million dollars. That's no sneeze. And if you take 24 million dollars and say half of it goes to the architect for his work, that's twelve million and if you say there is a margin of profit of about ten percent, that's a million two. And it's probably twenty percent, because they were paid by their time. Probably three times, not two and half times. So you know there is money to be made off that job. I don't mind that, but by the same token, the client deserves a service. I think they got it, they got a great building. Now what's wrong with the drawings, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure something's wrong with the drawings.
v5: What changes would you like to see in Los Angeles, and do you think architects have a role to play in these changes?
BZ: I definitely think architects have a role to play in these changes. Only the thinking architects. And architects that don't get diluted by the money interest alone. I think we need a mayor that is a visionary and can understand ideas. I think we need to shake up the whole Planning Department of the City and get thinkers into the head of the department. I think this piece meal zoning that the City Council does has to stop. I think we need a comprehensive master plan for the whole area and then break it down into centers. Which Calvin Hamilton, who just died, did.
Glenn Small told me there were only three professionals at his funeral. Here was a guy who found out what the City needed and wanted at the time. I think it took too long for him to do that process, but he wanted to get the people involved, so that they were part of the decision making process. He called it the center concept. We have done nothing on that to reinforce our centers. I think that we have to increase the density of our centers. There is a master plan for a greenbelt system that finally got put together. We've talked about a greenbelt system for years and Bill Fane has put together this system. We need this greenbelt system going through our city if you going to make some real definite changes. For instance, when you go to Boston and see Omsteads Park, you know something was thought about. It's a simple thing, he has this finger park and then it goes into the bigger park. You know that when you go to New York and you see Central Park, you have an idea that focuses around a park. You come to Los Angeles and wonder, where? And Los Angeles has all that potential. There is the River Project, bring the LA River back to some ecological base. What I think you need are some visionaries at the top. For instance, I would probably love to have Ray Kappe, Jim Pulliam, and I run the Planning Department and be on the selection committee of architects and architecture for the City. You need a brilliant person. Frank Gehry would be good too. If Frank Gehry gets through this period the way I think he will get through it, he is going to be very influential in Los Angeles. You know Frank told me, which was an interesting thing and I wanted to find out his concept, he said, "You know the Concert Hall should not have been built where it's being built." That was surprising. I didn't even think about it. He said, "It should be built along Wilshire Boulevard. We should reinforce Wilshire Boulevard."
v5: Do you think the AIA has a role to play?
BZ: Yes, the AIA has a role to play. It's too conservative an organization. I've tried working with it. I've been in the AIA since I was twenty-six years old, which would be over forty-one years.
I've made some contributions and changes that get washed out. You wonder where the ideas went (laughs). I should list those things that I did. The AIA could be very influential. There has to be a new base for the AIA, its too timid, lack of leadership and it bows to politics. It's a wealthy organization, by the way. They are looking for a new executive director, a CEO; the guy gets two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. So you can see they could have some power base, but they don't use it.
Now I tried to bring all the environmental fields together years ago. We don't have enough power bases, the real estate people have a power base, the attorneys have a power base, the doctors have a power base.
The architect has no control of his profession and he doesn't have the power base and numbers to do that.
v5: Do you think the architect has the opportunity of providing the value to projects?
BZ: Yes, there is no doubt about it. For example, do you know of any projects that are outstanding without an architect? An architect doesn't have to be licensed or a member of AIA.
v5: I understand that. I think that when you look at something like the Disney Concert Hall, that's a clear example of an architect providing, not only value but money. Without Frank Gehry's involvement in the fund raising, the rest of the venture probably wouldn't have been able to really go forward. Or if not Frank Gehry, certainly an architect at that level. But most of the buildings that we see go up out there seem as though there is almost no architectural involvement there.
BZ: But there is.
v5: We know that there is, but you can't find it.
BZ: What does that tell you? Something's wrong with the education and the process.
v5: It may be the education or the marketplace.
BZ: The marketplace is wrong. It's definitely the marketplace that's wrong. Architects have to be crusaders and fighters. It wasn't easy for Frank Lloyd Wright. I would like a society that was easy for Frank Lloyd Wright. I remember Frank Lloyd Wright trying to sell his Richmond Bridge and they wouldn't buy it. They got some farchadat bridge now up there. Architects have not taken their position in the political arena. And some of the architects who get into the political arena are mediocre. By the way, I just heard that Richard Rogers is one of the Members of Parliament. I'm very fond of an artist named Max Bill, who is a very find artist, and in his later years he served in the political process equal to our congress. That's very inspiring. We shouldn't leave it to the mediocre architects. That's one of the problems, the architects who are sensitive and design oriented and all, are naïve in the political process. Frank Gehry might be one of the few who break through. Although, by the way he is acting, he could be clobbered too; they could consider him a villain
v5: The Bilboa project is so beautiful and so moving.
BZ: You really like it? You have studied it?
v5: I really do. I'm very anxious to go and see it.
BZ: Well, I trust your opinion.
v5: The reason I'm bring it up is because I hope the momentum that he has from that project will allow for the push in the Disney Concert Hall project.
BZ: Oh, it's happening already.
v5: Thank you Bernard for your help and support of the v5 project. We all hope you keep up the good fight.
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